J Norman

[jon_ystrad]

Odd one this

The transcript of Byng's trial, unless I horrendously mis-typed it has a witness
"Lt. John Norman, late midshipman of the Ramilies"

This individual does not appear to exist, and logically it would be JAMES Norman who is the person in question
https://threedecks.org/index.php?displa ... an&id=1546

HOWEVER, there is an obvious problem here - Byng sailed in early April 1756, and nobody could possibly have caught up with him, only Edgecumbe's detached squadron and Hervey's detached ship joined up, both of which were in the Mediterranean already.

As midshipmen could not take the lieutenants' exam on board ship BUT could be carried as a passed midshipmen, awaiting a lieutenants' posting, the obvious question is:-

Given the date here
"3.5.1756 Passed the Lieutenant's Examination ADM 107/4/358"
COULD that date be a summary date of the last 6 weeks or so lieutenants' exams?

If not, I can't make any sense of this.
If so, then James [not John] Norman, would have been a recently passed midshipman on the Ramillies as it sailed. This would also explain how he would have been promoted ON OPERATIONS.

BUT I cannot find him among the supernumeraries of the Antelope, which would imply he sailed for England later. Was there a second call for witnesses for Byng's trial?

Thanks for any help
Jon N Davies

[jon_ystrad]

It IS definitely James Norman, as per the attached from Byng's trial.

Given the date for passing his lieutenant's exam is after Byng set sail, then the actual exam must have been six weeks or so before that date, and either he sailed without knowing the result which had not yet been given, or the date given is a reporting date of covering a period prior to it.

He was thus a "passed midshipman" on the Ramillies while it was in the Mediterranean, whether he knew it or not.

As he is not on the manifest of the Antelope, then he must have been one of the extra witnesses that the Admiralty allowed Byng to call, and who were returned to England on the Colchester

[Cy]

Hi

Exam boards were held on the day and the result known immediately. In Mr Normans case the two examaning officers were Edward Spragge and John Bentley, the later captain of the yacht Charlotte at the time.

He was later commissioned into the Deptford on 25 June 1756, just after the battle.

I'm attaching an image of his passing record. It looks like the 3rd May date is a transcription error, the other certificates on the page show a clear 3rd March date, in a diferent hand. I am going to update his records accordingly.

j nomran passing cert 1756.JPG (92.09 KiB) Viewed 2017 times

[jon_ystrad]

Cy, brilliant thank you!

From being posted to the Deptford as 3rd Lieutenant, he would have served in that role till the second call for witnesses at Byng's trial and they were collected and shipped home on the Colchester.

The only date I don't currently have is transfer as Midshipman from the Captain to the Ramillies, but I will add that to things to look up next time I at Kew

Best Regards
Jon