Do we have any more information on the Aziia-class?

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CloningCody
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Do we have any more information on the Aziia-class?

Post by CloningCody »

Is there any more information on the Russian third-rate ships of the line of the Aziia-class?
More specifically I am hoping for measurements of tonnage, lightweight, deadweight, displacement, length (LOA, bowsprit to spanker, billet head to taffrail, and at waterline), height (foremast, mainmast, and mizzenmast), depth to deck, draft, decks, sail plan, bow speed, and any other information that would normally be recorded.

I am pretty new to the researching of ships so some pointers would be great.
Cy
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Re: Do we have any more information on the Aziia-class?

Post by Cy »

Have you looked at the class details on the main site?
OK, it was me, probably!
CloningCody
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Re: Do we have any more information on the Aziia-class?

Post by CloningCody »

Yes. They only have information on these three measurements:
Gundeck Length: 160'
Length of Keel Breadth: 44' 6"
Depth in hold Burthen: 19' 0"

I would like to know more about them than just that.
Navclio
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Re: Do we have any more information on the Aziia-class?

Post by Navclio »

Tredrea and Sozaev, Russian Warships in the Age of Sail, have 4 Aziyas. It would help to know which one you understand to be a class namesake.

I don't think I've ever seen the details you are asking for in a ship directory or list. They look like the sort of information that would be found only on the original plans or contemporary regulations, or in a detailed one-ship monograph.

The class that Tredrea and Sozaev call the "Aziia class" consisted of 28 × 64-gun ships of the line built from 1762 to 1800, including two ships named Aziya, one laid down in 1772 and broken up after 1791, one laid down in 1794 and "ceded to France" in 1809. They have a broadside drawing of class member Pobedonosets of 1780 on p. 165 but it does not show the masts and spars and there is no scale.

There are a few similar broadside drawings in A.A. Chernyshev, Rossiiskii Parusnyi Flot, but nothing from the 1762–1800 Aziya class.
CloningCody
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Re: Do we have any more information on the Aziia-class?

Post by CloningCody »

Actually the Aziya (1796) which was given to France became the L'Asie which on this site says it had a Tons Burthen of c1,100. Not sure if that would be the same as its original Aziya form if the French changed anything about it.

I think I may have found the plans of Pobedonosets (1829). However I am unsure if it was one of the Aziia-class since as you said they stopped making them in 1800, and the Pobedonosets (1809) is the ship listed on this site as an Aziia-class ship. Or I swore it was listed as an Aziia.... ???? I don't suppose that was changed over night was it.

Anyway here are the plans that I found, they feature a deck plan on pg. 5 with a scale. However I really have no idea how to actually read ship plans. Can you confirm these are actual plans or fakes?
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Navclio
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Re: Do we have any more information on the Aziia-class?

Post by Navclio »

"Pobedonosets" means "victor," from "pobeda," "victory." The Russian navy had ships named "Pobedonosets" and "Svyatai Georgii Pobedonosets" (St. George the Victor).

The Svyatoi Georgii Pobedonosets of 1829 was a 110-118-gun three-decker of the Inperaator Aleksandr class (Tredrea and Sozaev, p. 219), nothing like the 66-gun two deckers of the Aziya class.

I, for one, would have no idea whether the plans posted for Svyatoi Georgii Pobedonosets are redrawings from the originals or "fakes." What is the source? I'm not sure why anyone would fake such a comprehensive set plans for a 19th-century battleship, but it is possible that they have been associated with the wrong ship or class. T & S give SGP's dimensions as 198 ft × 51 ft 8 in × 21 ft from F.F. Veselago, Spisok Russkikh Voennykh Sudov, 1668–1860 (List of Russian Warships, 1668–1860), 198 ft (181 ft 1 in keel) × 51 ft 8 in inside the planking × 23 ft × 23 ft 6 in from Zapiski Uchenogo Komiteta Glavnogo Morskogo Shtaba (Proceedings of the Scientific Committee of the Cheif Naval Staff; year not stated).

They give the following armaments, which you can compare to the gunport arrangement:
1829
Lower deck, 26 × short 36-pounders, 4 × 1-pood
Middle deck, 32 × short 24-pounders
Upper deck, 32 × long 12-pounders
Forecastle and quarterdeck, 24 × 24-pounder carronades
1854 (Pamyatnaya Knizhka Morskogo Velomstva (Memorandum of the Navy Office; year not stated)
Lower, 26 × short 36, 4 × 2-pood shell guns
Middle, 28 × short 24, 4 × 1-pood
Upper, 32 × 24-pounder gunnades(I think a compromise between long "guns" and "carronades")
FC & QD, 2 × short 24, 14 × 24 carr.
Navclio
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Re: Do we have any more information on the Aziia-class?

Post by Navclio »

I could not look at the plans after I started writing my reply, but was able to do so after I posted it. The plans are for a two-decker that appears to have 26 gunports on each gun deck. Therefore, they cannot be for the Svyatoi Georgii Pobedonosets of 1829. The Russian navy had two earlier ships named Svyatoi Georgii Pobedonosets and one named Pobeda.

SGP, 1770–1780, was a member of the 59-ship Slava Rossii class, with 24 guns on the LD (22 × 24, 2 × 1-pood), 26 on the UD (24 × 12, 2 × ½-pood), 16 on the FC & QD (66 guns).

SGP, 1780–1807/8 (broken up), was a member of the Aziya class, with LD 24 × 24 + 2 1-pood, UD 22 × 12, 2 × ½-pood, FC & QD 16 × 6 (66 guns). T & S say she was a "modified Aziia class" ship.

Pobedonosets (no "Svyatoi Georgii"), 1809–1822 was a "unique Russian ship, built to plans obtained in Great Britain, with 64 guns, 26/28/10.

The ship whose single broadside plan is labelled in T & S as for "Pobedonosets," to which I referred to in a previous post, was apparently for the Aziya class Svyatoi Georgii Pobedonosets.
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