Turkish Navy, 1740s

[AvM]

Albert!

I do not know if you are familiar witrhnthe book
Harald Pinl
"Der Kriegsschiffbau Russlands zwischen 1725 und 1762"
Privatverlag Langenhagen 2003
ISBN 3-8311-4978-X
AvM

[Navclio]

John's list from Alperen is useful because using the book at the Library of Congress requires a two-day visit.

I am not familiar with the Pinl, but I think I have all of the information I need about Russian warships from a combination of Tredrea and Sozaev, Russian Warships in the Age of Sail, and Chernyshev, Rossiiskii Parusnyi Flot. Since the Library of Congress has the book (at least in its catalogue; whether they can actually deliver it in response to a request is always uncertain), and I will put it on my list for future visits.

Thanks again for the additional information.

[AvM]

Pinl was a German diplomat working in ST.Petersburg
anfd in free time researching the Russian Archives.
His book based on documents, discussed shipbuilding and naval policy
Shipbuilding organisation, laws, regulations, personal, etc.
No any Russian books have such data!

Tredera and Sozaev book gives unfortunately nothing new
for somebody reading Russian, and knowing Chernyshev, Veselago,
Materialy po Istorii Russkogo Flota, etc, but is very usefurl for
somebody reading only English.

Materialy are available to download (each vol ca 700 pages)
Vol 7 1730 - 1735
Vol 8 1735 - 1740
Vol 9 1740 - 1747

Tere are also a small book by A.M.Danilov
"Lineynye korabli i fregaty russkogo parusnogo flota"
Minsk 1996
ISBN 885-6015-29-4
, which add many operational materials,
order of battle, organisation, etc of the Russian Navy

[Navclio]

This is drifting away from the Turkish navy.

"Materialy are available to download (each vol ca 700 pages)
"Vol 7 1730 - 1735
"Vol 8 1735 - 1740
"Vol 9 1740 - 1747"

Andreas, where are these available to download. I Googled "Materialy po" etc. and got some hits, including a site where one can buy paper reprints (https://www.livelib.ru/work/1002682640- ... belavenets), but I did not find a site from which to download any of the volumes. I do have PDFs of vols. 9 and 10 but don't remember where I got them. Ted Sozaev might have helped me find them or have sent them to me.

[AvM]

I am also have them some years ,
Материалы для истории российского флота
Es should know where they are
Perhaps there

http://elib.shpl.ru/nodes/1708

[AvM]

I can not really imagine thay somebody couidl write about the Russian Navy of XVIII century
without using "Materialy...". I do not any serious >Russian materials except that

I think there you could d0ownload complete books
(Note Vesalago is also here)

http://www.runivers.ru/newsearch/?q=%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8B+%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F+%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B8+%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE+%D1%84%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0

[Navclio]

"I can not really imagine thay somebody couidl write about the Russian Navy of XVIII century
without using "Materialy..."

I am not writing my books on naval operations of the 1740s entirely from primary sources; that would be the task of more of a lifetime than I have remaining. I am using some Russian sources, but my Russian is not nearly good enough to make extensive use of Materialy. I spent a lot of time translating a short book on Russian operations in the War of the Hats by Mikhael Murav’ev, Russkii flot v voine so shvetsiei 1741-1743 godov (Lvov: [n. pub.], 2000). Murav'ev cites Materialy and other primary sources such as the Russian naval staff study, Al. Sokolov, Morskie pokhody protiv shvedov 1742 i 1743 godov (Publications of the Hydrography Department, Navy Ministry, vol. 5. [St. Petersburg], 1847), written before Veselago compiled Materialy but undoubtedly based on primary sources available at the Admiralty in St. Petersburg.

It's the same story for the other navies. I use captains' and admirals' reports and journals when I can get them for details that I want to include but that are not available from previously published accounts. The point of my research is to integrate the views of the opposing navies, which often reveals mistakes by each navy about their opponents' plans, casualties, signals, etc. I have found reports in the secondary literature of enemy squadrons that, from the other side's literature, clearly did not exist; sometimes I can infer the source of the error, sometimes I can't. I call it an "integrated" history; perhaps it can be considered "tertiary." It depends, of course, on the secondary studies, which are perforce based on primary sources.

Andreas, thank you for posting the link. Perhaps we should repost this discussion under "Russian navy" so that future visitors could find it more readily.

[JohnH]

A note to my last post (see above December 07): Günes kıçlı appears to have been a standard small two-decker rather than one of the faster caravels. That would make Ottoman fleet strength in 1730 4 three-deckers, 23 two-deckers and 6 frigates (caravels), the same as in 1738.

[Grammont]

Slightly off topic but they are nominally part of the Ottoman Empire, Istoria degli stati di Algeri, Tunisi, Tripoli e Marocco, trasportata fedelmente dalla lingua inglese nell'italiana (published 1754) has a listing of the Algerine fleet.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=HzE ... &q&f=false

[AvM]

Slightly off topic but they are nominally part of the Ottoman Empire, Istoria degli stati di Algeri, Tunisi, Tripoli e Marocco, trasportata fedelmente dalla lingua inglese nell'italiana (published 1754) has a listing of the Algerine fleet.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=HzE ... &q&f=false

I think real discussion on the Algerian navy is worth separate topic.