Turkish Navy, 1740s
Turkish Navy, 1740s
I need to know the number of ships of the line and frigates in the Turkish navy in 1740 or during the 1740s. Answers with specific source citations will be especially useful. Thank you.
Re: Turkish Navy, 1740s
An article by Daniel Panzac, ‘Armed Peace in the Mediterranean 1736-1739’, Mariner’s Mirror, vol 84, no. 1 (1998) pp. 41-55 has details on the fleet for 1737-8. This is not exactly your period but might be a starting point. Daniel’s source is an anonymous report in the French Archives Nationales, Affaires Étrangères, BIII 238. According to this report the fleet consisted of 4 three-deckers (98-108 guns), 10 large two-deckers (66-72 guns), 13 mid-size two-deckers (52-62 guns) and 6 frigates or small two-deckers (38-46 guns). Available Turkish records do not confirm all the details of gun and crew numbers in the French report but it appears to be a reasonably accurate representation of Ottoman seapower at the time. Daniel summarises this data in his later La marine ottomane (Paris 2009) but does not add to it.
The best Turkish source for the early and mid 18th century I know of is Yusuf Alperen Aydin, Sultanın Kalyonları: Osmanlı Donanmasının Yelkenli Savaş Gemileri (1701-1770) (Istanbul 2011). As the title indicates, it covers the development of the navy from 1701 to 1770. It does not have specific data on the strength of the fleet in 1740s however.
I will keep looking for something in the 1740s. For those interested in Ottoman maritime history who read English but not French, an English translation of La marine ottomane is to be published by Oxford University Press next year.
The best Turkish source for the early and mid 18th century I know of is Yusuf Alperen Aydin, Sultanın Kalyonları: Osmanlı Donanmasının Yelkenli Savaş Gemileri (1701-1770) (Istanbul 2011). As the title indicates, it covers the development of the navy from 1701 to 1770. It does not have specific data on the strength of the fleet in 1740s however.
I will keep looking for something in the 1740s. For those interested in Ottoman maritime history who read English but not French, an English translation of La marine ottomane is to be published by Oxford University Press next year.
Re: Turkish Navy, 1740s
I want onyly mention that Professor Panzac died 5 year ago
Below also a list of his articles
That is perhaps one you need:
"La flotte ottomane au milieu du XVIIIe siècle", Ankara, Belleten, Août 1996, p 389-¬419.
http://iremam.cnrs.fr/spip.php?article407
Below also a list of his articles
That is perhaps one you need:
"La flotte ottomane au milieu du XVIIIe siècle", Ankara, Belleten, Août 1996, p 389-¬419.
http://iremam.cnrs.fr/spip.php?article407
Re: Turkish Navy, 1740s
Hi Andreas,
I hope there is not a misunderstanding here. I sometimes use the present tense when I discuss sources that I use. I first made contact with Daniel Panzac in 2012 not long before he died. His death therefore came as a shock to me.
John
I hope there is not a misunderstanding here. I sometimes use the present tense when I discuss sources that I use. I first made contact with Daniel Panzac in 2012 not long before he died. His death therefore came as a shock to me.
John
Re: Turkish Navy, 1740s
Thank you, John and Andreas,
I will follow up on these references, which probably have what I need. A 2018 publication will be too late for me because the manuscript for my book on naval operations in the Russo-Swedish war of 1741-43 is due to Helion and Company by the end of that year; however, I should be able to understand the French version of La marine ottomane.
What does the Turkish navy have to do with the War of the Hats in the Baltic? I want to compare the ratio of galleys to sailing warships in the Swedish and Russian navies to the presence of galleys in Mediterranean navies. Without a long tradition of galley warfare (the Russians had no long tradition of any kind of warfare at sea; the Swedes had not had to conduct naval campaigns on the coasts of Sweden and Finland until 1700), the Baltic navies sought experience in the Mediterranean. After losing the Great Northern War, the Swedish navy sent two officers and a shipbuilder to the Genoa and Venice for a three-year tour. Although the Russians did not do that, they did use Italian terminology and patterns for their own rowed craft.
Albert Parker
Proceeding on Baltic and Barents: Sweden vs. Russia at Sea, 1741–43 (a working title that might be changed)
All the Seas of the World: The First Global Naval War, 1739–48 in abeyance pending completion of Baltic and Barents (which has been pulled out of the original one-volume work
I will follow up on these references, which probably have what I need. A 2018 publication will be too late for me because the manuscript for my book on naval operations in the Russo-Swedish war of 1741-43 is due to Helion and Company by the end of that year; however, I should be able to understand the French version of La marine ottomane.
What does the Turkish navy have to do with the War of the Hats in the Baltic? I want to compare the ratio of galleys to sailing warships in the Swedish and Russian navies to the presence of galleys in Mediterranean navies. Without a long tradition of galley warfare (the Russians had no long tradition of any kind of warfare at sea; the Swedes had not had to conduct naval campaigns on the coasts of Sweden and Finland until 1700), the Baltic navies sought experience in the Mediterranean. After losing the Great Northern War, the Swedish navy sent two officers and a shipbuilder to the Genoa and Venice for a three-year tour. Although the Russians did not do that, they did use Italian terminology and patterns for their own rowed craft.
Albert Parker
Proceeding on Baltic and Barents: Sweden vs. Russia at Sea, 1741–43 (a working title that might be changed)
All the Seas of the World: The First Global Naval War, 1739–48 in abeyance pending completion of Baltic and Barents (which has been pulled out of the original one-volume work
Re: Turkish Navy, 1740s
La marine ottomane (Paris 2009) p. 192
Les flottes de Guerre (1736-1739)
Rang 1° 90+ guns 4
Rang 3° 65-80 11
Rang 4° 50-64 12
Rang 5° 31-46 5
he identified names of 29 of 33 ships
Les flottes de Guerre (1736-1739)
Rang 1° 90+ guns 4
Rang 3° 65-80 11
Rang 4° 50-64 12
Rang 5° 31-46 5
he identified names of 29 of 33 ships
Re: Turkish Navy, 1740s
Çifte Aslan Kıçlı (Two Lions) 110 aka Cift Arlsan
Çifte Kaplan Kıçlı (Two Tigers) 102 aka Cift Kaplan
Şeşpa-yı Bahri (The Octopus) 98 aka Sipahi-i Bahr
Melik-i Bahri (Sovereign of the Sea) 98 aka Malika-i Bahr
Çifte Ceylan Kıçlı (Two Gazelles) 70 aka Cift Geikli
Çifte Bagçeli (Two Gardens) 67 aka Ihi Bagceli
Yaldızlı Hurma (The Gilded Date) 72 aka Yaldizli Hurma
Beyaz At Başlı (The White Horse) 66 aka Beyaz At
Şadırvan Kıçlı (The Sprinkling Fountain) 68 aka Şadırvan Kıçlı
Büyük Gül Başlı (The Great Rose) ?? aka Büyük Gül Basli
Ejder basli (the Dragon) 56 aka Ejder Basl
Küçük Gül Başlı (The Little Rose) 60 aka Kücük Gül Basli
Yaldızlı Şahin Kıçlı (The Gilded Hawk) 62aka Yalidizli Sahin
Akrep Başlı (The Scorpion) 62
Mavi Arslan Başlı (The Blue Lion) 44 aka Mavi Arslan
Yaldızlı Nar Kıçlı (Gilded Grenade) 52 aka Yaldızlı Nar
Servi Bagçeli (Cypress Garden) 54 aka Selvi Bahçeli
Yıldız Bagçeli (Star Garden) 54 aka Yıldız Bahçeli
Ay Bağçeli (Moon Garden) 54 aka Ay Bahçeli
Küçük Şahin (The Little Hawk) ???
Beyaz Şahin (The White Hawk) ??
Deve Kusu (Ostrich) ??
Serce Kusu (Sparrow) ??
Ispinoz (Chaffinch) ??
Al Quasr (Castle) ??
Baba Ibrahim ??
Çifte Kaplan Kıçlı (Two Tigers) 102 aka Cift Kaplan
Şeşpa-yı Bahri (The Octopus) 98 aka Sipahi-i Bahr
Melik-i Bahri (Sovereign of the Sea) 98 aka Malika-i Bahr
Çifte Ceylan Kıçlı (Two Gazelles) 70 aka Cift Geikli
Çifte Bagçeli (Two Gardens) 67 aka Ihi Bagceli
Yaldızlı Hurma (The Gilded Date) 72 aka Yaldizli Hurma
Beyaz At Başlı (The White Horse) 66 aka Beyaz At
Şadırvan Kıçlı (The Sprinkling Fountain) 68 aka Şadırvan Kıçlı
Büyük Gül Başlı (The Great Rose) ?? aka Büyük Gül Basli
Ejder basli (the Dragon) 56 aka Ejder Basl
Küçük Gül Başlı (The Little Rose) 60 aka Kücük Gül Basli
Yaldızlı Şahin Kıçlı (The Gilded Hawk) 62aka Yalidizli Sahin
Akrep Başlı (The Scorpion) 62
Mavi Arslan Başlı (The Blue Lion) 44 aka Mavi Arslan
Yaldızlı Nar Kıçlı (Gilded Grenade) 52 aka Yaldızlı Nar
Servi Bagçeli (Cypress Garden) 54 aka Selvi Bahçeli
Yıldız Bagçeli (Star Garden) 54 aka Yıldız Bahçeli
Ay Bağçeli (Moon Garden) 54 aka Ay Bahçeli
Küçük Şahin (The Little Hawk) ???
Beyaz Şahin (The White Hawk) ??
Deve Kusu (Ostrich) ??
Serce Kusu (Sparrow) ??
Ispinoz (Chaffinch) ??
Al Quasr (Castle) ??
Baba Ibrahim ??
Last edited by AvM on Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Turkish Navy, 1740s
http://tsushima.su/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=1066779
there is in Russian list by Ted
there is in Russian list by Ted
Re: Turkish Navy, 1740s
For John and anyone else waiting for the English translation of Panzac, La marine ottomane, AvM's link leads to another forum, forum.game-labs.net, thread title "Ottoman Navy and List of Battleships," where it seems that the translation was published last June 27 under the title The Ottoman Navy: From the Height of Empire to Dissolution, 1572–1923. That's too recent for the Library of Congress, so I will make do for the time being with the French version.
Re: Turkish Navy, 1740s
Thanks Albert although I read French well enough use the French version too. I wanted to alert other forum members who might not.
A couple of comments about the names in the French report of 1738 cited by Daniel Panzac (and in Andreas’s post above). Many of the names refer to the decoration of the ship in question. Kıçlı means at the stern (literally ‘sterned’) and başlı means at the bow or head (literally ‘headed’). So, for example, Çifte Arslan kıçlı means Double Lion at the stern, Çifte Kaplan kıçlı means Double Tiger at the stern, Beyaz At başlı means White Horse at the head, Mâvî Arslan başlı means Blue Lion at the head, and so on. Baba Ibrahim (Father Ibrahim), however, seems to me an unlikely ship name.
Below is a list of the fleet in 1730 from Yusuf Alperen’s Sultanın Kalyonları (pp. 54-55) for comparison with the French report of 1738. Many of the ships were the same as in 1738 and the structure of the fleet was almost identical: 4 three-deckers (exactly the same ships as in 1738), 22 two-deckers (mostly the same ships as in 1738) and 7 frigates or small two-deckers (mostly the same ships as in 1738). Yusuf’s list includes length on the keel in zira and metres. One zira is computed these days as equal to 0.755 metres or 2.48 feet. Transliterations of names, of course, are as in modern Turkish (and in Andreas’s post).
Ottoman Fleet 1730
Three deckers (üç ambarlı = three decker)
1 Çifte Arslan kıçlı: 61,5 zira = 46,61 m.
2 Çifte Kaplan kıçlı: 59,5 zira = 45,10 m.
3 Melek-i Bahrî: 55,5 zira = 42,06 m.
4 Sespâ-yı Bahrî: 55,5 zira = 42,06 m.
Two deckers (iki ambarlı = two decker)
5 Çifte Ceyrân kıçlı: 57,5 zira = 43,58 m.
6 Yaldızlı Hurma: 57,5 zira = 43,58 m.
7 Ejder başlı: 55,5 zira = 42,06 m.
8 Sadırvan kıçlı: 55 zira = 41,69 m.
9 Beyaz At başlı: 55 zira = 41,69 m.
10 Büyük Gül başlı: 55 zira = 41,69 m.
11 Sungur kıçlı: 55 zira = 41,69 m.
12 Esper kıçlı: 53,5 zira = 40,55 m.
13 Ifrit başlı: 53,5 zira = 40,55 m.
14 Küçük Gül başlı: 53,5 zira = 40,55 m.
15 Yılan başlı: 51,5 zira = 39,03 m.
16 Yaldızlı Sahin kıçlı: 51 zira = 38,65 m.
17 Zülfikar kıçlı: 51 zira = 38,65 m.
18 Akçasârlı: 51 zira = 38,65 m.
19 Servi bagçeli: 49 zira = 37,14 m.
20 Yaldızlı Nar kıçlı: 47,5 zira = 36 m.
21 Yaldız bagçeli: 46 zira = 34,86 m.
22 Kırmızı kusaklı: 45 zira = 34,11 m.
23 Sarı kusaklı: 45 zira = 34,11 m.
24 Yesil kusaklı: 44 zira = 33,35 m.
25 Ay bagçeli: 44 zira = 33,35 m.
26 Mâvî Arslan başlı: 43,5 zira = 32,97 m.
Frigates (karavele = caravel or fast sailing ship)
27 Karavele-i cedid-i evvel: 43,5 zira = 32,97 m.
28 Karavele-i cedid-i sânî: 43,5 zira = 32,97 m.
29 Günes kıçlı: 43,5 zira = 32,97 m.
30 Sahin kıçlı: 41,5 zira = 31,45 m.
31 Kus Bagçeli: 41,5 zira = 31,45 m.
32 Çifte Balaban kıçlı: 38,5 zira = 29,18 m.
33 Mâvî kıçlı: 38,5 zira = 29,18 m.
Karavele-i cedid-i evvel means first new caravel, Karavele-i cedid-i sânî means second new caravel. Melek-i Bahrî and Sespâ-yı Bahrî appear to have been small three-deckers. Emir Yener in his research credits them with only 66 guns (not 98 as in the French report). A table in Sultanın Kalyonları gives the armament of 55 zira three-deckers in 1723 as totalling 66 guns (p. 337).
A couple of comments about the names in the French report of 1738 cited by Daniel Panzac (and in Andreas’s post above). Many of the names refer to the decoration of the ship in question. Kıçlı means at the stern (literally ‘sterned’) and başlı means at the bow or head (literally ‘headed’). So, for example, Çifte Arslan kıçlı means Double Lion at the stern, Çifte Kaplan kıçlı means Double Tiger at the stern, Beyaz At başlı means White Horse at the head, Mâvî Arslan başlı means Blue Lion at the head, and so on. Baba Ibrahim (Father Ibrahim), however, seems to me an unlikely ship name.
Below is a list of the fleet in 1730 from Yusuf Alperen’s Sultanın Kalyonları (pp. 54-55) for comparison with the French report of 1738. Many of the ships were the same as in 1738 and the structure of the fleet was almost identical: 4 three-deckers (exactly the same ships as in 1738), 22 two-deckers (mostly the same ships as in 1738) and 7 frigates or small two-deckers (mostly the same ships as in 1738). Yusuf’s list includes length on the keel in zira and metres. One zira is computed these days as equal to 0.755 metres or 2.48 feet. Transliterations of names, of course, are as in modern Turkish (and in Andreas’s post).
Ottoman Fleet 1730
Three deckers (üç ambarlı = three decker)
1 Çifte Arslan kıçlı: 61,5 zira = 46,61 m.
2 Çifte Kaplan kıçlı: 59,5 zira = 45,10 m.
3 Melek-i Bahrî: 55,5 zira = 42,06 m.
4 Sespâ-yı Bahrî: 55,5 zira = 42,06 m.
Two deckers (iki ambarlı = two decker)
5 Çifte Ceyrân kıçlı: 57,5 zira = 43,58 m.
6 Yaldızlı Hurma: 57,5 zira = 43,58 m.
7 Ejder başlı: 55,5 zira = 42,06 m.
8 Sadırvan kıçlı: 55 zira = 41,69 m.
9 Beyaz At başlı: 55 zira = 41,69 m.
10 Büyük Gül başlı: 55 zira = 41,69 m.
11 Sungur kıçlı: 55 zira = 41,69 m.
12 Esper kıçlı: 53,5 zira = 40,55 m.
13 Ifrit başlı: 53,5 zira = 40,55 m.
14 Küçük Gül başlı: 53,5 zira = 40,55 m.
15 Yılan başlı: 51,5 zira = 39,03 m.
16 Yaldızlı Sahin kıçlı: 51 zira = 38,65 m.
17 Zülfikar kıçlı: 51 zira = 38,65 m.
18 Akçasârlı: 51 zira = 38,65 m.
19 Servi bagçeli: 49 zira = 37,14 m.
20 Yaldızlı Nar kıçlı: 47,5 zira = 36 m.
21 Yaldız bagçeli: 46 zira = 34,86 m.
22 Kırmızı kusaklı: 45 zira = 34,11 m.
23 Sarı kusaklı: 45 zira = 34,11 m.
24 Yesil kusaklı: 44 zira = 33,35 m.
25 Ay bagçeli: 44 zira = 33,35 m.
26 Mâvî Arslan başlı: 43,5 zira = 32,97 m.
Frigates (karavele = caravel or fast sailing ship)
27 Karavele-i cedid-i evvel: 43,5 zira = 32,97 m.
28 Karavele-i cedid-i sânî: 43,5 zira = 32,97 m.
29 Günes kıçlı: 43,5 zira = 32,97 m.
30 Sahin kıçlı: 41,5 zira = 31,45 m.
31 Kus Bagçeli: 41,5 zira = 31,45 m.
32 Çifte Balaban kıçlı: 38,5 zira = 29,18 m.
33 Mâvî kıçlı: 38,5 zira = 29,18 m.
Karavele-i cedid-i evvel means first new caravel, Karavele-i cedid-i sânî means second new caravel. Melek-i Bahrî and Sespâ-yı Bahrî appear to have been small three-deckers. Emir Yener in his research credits them with only 66 guns (not 98 as in the French report). A table in Sultanın Kalyonları gives the armament of 55 zira three-deckers in 1723 as totalling 66 guns (p. 337).